Eon Zen / One Body Sangha Dharma Holder and Zen Peacemakers Executive Director Geoff Shōun talks with Roshi Michel Engu Dobbs about how they both came to practice Zen, the early days of the Order of Disorder, the practice being vulnerable, and being free in (instead of free from) difficult emotions.

During the dialogue, Engu mentions Kazu Haga's books Healing Resistance and Fierce Vulnerability: https://www.kazuhaga.com https://www.parallax.org/product/healing-resistance/ https://www.parallax.org/product/fierce-vulnerability/

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Michel Engu Dobbs is a Zen priest and Abbot at the Ocean Zendo in Sag Harbor, NY, an affiliate of Zen Peacemakers, and Dharma heir of Peter Muryo Matthiessen Roshi. He has alleged connections with Roshi Bernie Glassman’s Order of Disorder and has taught meditation to incarcerated minors at the Suffolk County Correctional Facility in Riverhead since 2012. A husband and father of three, Engu has been a baker and bakery manager for over thirty years. He began practicing Zen with the NYC sangha of the late Kyudo Nakagawa Roshi in 1992 and began study with Muryo Roshi in 1994. He was ordained in 2001 and received Dharma transmission in 2005.